Jump to content


Photo

The "Purpose" of Life


  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#1 Gahan

Gahan

    Mmmm...that's some damn good pumpkin pie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 160 posts

Posted 06 November 2006 - 12:38 PM

Once one reaches the logical conclusion that knowledge of a relevant deity is probably not possible, that humans are just a walking chemical reaction, that all the meaning in the world is simply imposed by our minds, angst is usually the result. But angst does not suit me and is childish. Instead I accepted my fate and started focusing on what is left.

Some time ago I reached the conclusion that the seeking of pleasure (balanced between the short and long term) is of the paramount importance. That as long as I am here I might as well seek my own personal ends and run on my proverbial hamster's wheel. The fact that I will die and become nothing usually does not bother me, I view it as something that must be accepted and shows how me must 'seize the day'.

That is pretty much my worldview at the moment. The problem is I have an inkling (as one of my limited expereince and philosophical development should) that I am full of bullshit.

Comments?

#2 geigertube

geigertube

    ZOMG

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,120 posts
  • Location:Secret HQ in geostationary orbit above Kansas City, MO

Posted 06 November 2006 - 02:11 PM

QUOTE(Gahan @ Nov 6 2006, 09:38 AM) View Post

Once one reaches the logical conclusion that knowledge of a relevant deity is probably not possible, that humans are just a walking chemical reaction, that all the meaning in the world is simply imposed by our minds, angst is usually the result. But angst does not suit me and is childish. Instead I accepted my fate and started focusing on what is left.

Some time ago I reached the conclusion that the seeking of pleasure (balanced between the short and long term) is of the paramount importance. That as long as I am here I might as well seek my own personal ends and run on my proverbial hamster's wheel. The fact that I will die and become nothing usually does not bother me, I view it as something that must be accepted and shows how me must 'seize the day'.

That is pretty much my worldview at the moment. The problem is I have an inkling (as one of my limited expereince and philosophical development should) that I am full of bullshit.

Comments?




I think that you can run a pretty simple flow chart WRT life.

1. Are you happy?

Yes? ---> 2. Is it sustainable (or mostly so)? ---> Yes--> 4. Keep it up. No---> 5. Go to 3.

No? --- > 3. Try something else, then go to 1.


OTOH, I think that the notion that all of this stuff we call the human experience is the result of "a bunch of chemical reactions" to be pretty goddamn amazing, and awe inspiring.
you can cut your split ends, but you can't cut your roots.

#3 Frangible

Frangible

    Drug testing in progress

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 535 posts

Posted 06 November 2006 - 03:25 PM

But pleasure is fleeting and cannot last; hedonia leads to anhedonia. Perhaps instead, the neurological imperative is seeking happiness and avoiding suffering? Then I suppose you must determine what causes happiness, and what causes suffering. Have you considered meditating under a tree in Deer Park on it? wink.gif
"In short, self-absorption in all its forms kills empathy; let alone compassion. When we focus on ourselves, our world contracts as our problems and preoccupations loom large. But when we focus on others, our world expands. Our own problems drift to the periphery of the mind and so seem smaller, and we increase our capacity for connection-- or compassionate action." -Daniel Goleman, "Social Intelligence"

"But the unfortunate monkeys had lost all sense of how to respond emotionally to other monkeys in their band. Even when one made a friendly approach, they would run away, and eventually lived as isolates, shunning contact with their own troop." -Daniel Goleman, "Emotional Intelligence"

#4 blarger

blarger

    nanobot tiger

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 228 posts

Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:00 AM

When thinking about these types of things, I think it is useful and important to figure out how pleasure, contentment, and happiness are distinct yet interlocked.

#5 ScottL

ScottL

    Dang, no more big avatar

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,792 posts

Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:55 AM

Why does this remind me of my college lit course where we discussed Doestoyeveky...."if there is no god, all is permitted".

"But pleasure is fleeting and cannot last"

Not only cannot pleasure last, but our seeking it frequently ends up causing us pain.

Have you taken a recent philosophy course? Broken up with a girl recently?




"Peoples and governments never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it"
Hegel

In theory things are the same in theory and practice.
In practice they are not.

#6 Frangible

Frangible

    Drug testing in progress

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 535 posts

Posted 07 November 2006 - 09:32 AM

QUOTE
When thinking about these types of things, I think it is useful and important to figure out how pleasure, contentment, and happiness are distinct yet interlocked.


Pleasure is like a minor manifestation of happiness, connected to something external from ourselves. Discontent, we think "X will bring us happiness", yet even if it does, that pleasure is momentary, fleeting, unfulfilling, not satiating our need for contentment. Just as the nature of whatever external thing we tether our happiness to is subject to change and death, so too is the pleasure arising from it. Therefore, the true nature of pleasure, is pain; pain in the inability to fill our need for contentment, and pain in the change and cessation of pleasure. So contentment is a lack of attachment, of lust for things we think will make us happier but truly will not. Pleasure, like pain, is a fleeting mental state. Happiness arises as a result of abandoning attachment, hatred and anger, and egotism and delusion, as these are the sources of suffering we create for ourselves.

Well, that's more or less what the Buddha said, at least wink.gif It's not too far off from any sort of dopaminergic downregulation theory I could come up with.

QUOTE
Why does this remind me of my college lit course where we discussed Doestoyeveky...."if there is no god, all is permitted".


But all religions essentially teach the same thing-- love, good deeds, abandoning greed, and ego death. If the lack of these things creates suffering, then perhaps there is something to their philosophy after all.
"In short, self-absorption in all its forms kills empathy; let alone compassion. When we focus on ourselves, our world contracts as our problems and preoccupations loom large. But when we focus on others, our world expands. Our own problems drift to the periphery of the mind and so seem smaller, and we increase our capacity for connection-- or compassionate action." -Daniel Goleman, "Social Intelligence"

"But the unfortunate monkeys had lost all sense of how to respond emotionally to other monkeys in their band. Even when one made a friendly approach, they would run away, and eventually lived as isolates, shunning contact with their own troop." -Daniel Goleman, "Emotional Intelligence"

#7 Par Deus

Par Deus

    Supplement God

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,297 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 November 2006 - 02:40 PM

QUOTE(Gahan @ Nov 6 2006, 09:38 AM) View Post

Once one reaches the logical conclusion that knowledge of a relevant deity is probably not possible, that humans are just a walking chemical reaction, that all the meaning in the world is simply imposed by our minds, angst is usually the result. But angst does not suit me and is childish. Instead I accepted my fate and started focusing on what is left.

Some time ago I reached the conclusion that the seeking of pleasure (balanced between the short and long term) is of the paramount importance. That as long as I am here I might as well seek my own personal ends and run on my proverbial hamster's wheel. The fact that I will die and become nothing usually does not bother me, I view it as something that must be accepted and shows how me must 'seize the day'.

That is pretty much my worldview at the moment. The problem is I have an inkling (as one of my limited expereince and philosophical development should) that I am full of bullshit.

Comments?


This is why God invented Nietszche.

And, beer/scotch.



Posted Image


I exist to do 3 things.
Drink beer, kick ass, and take names.
And, I'm to drunk to spel.

www.avantlabs.com

#8 Gahan

Gahan

    Mmmm...that's some damn good pumpkin pie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 160 posts

Posted 07 November 2006 - 05:52 PM

QUOTE(Par Deus @ Nov 7 2006, 11:40 AM) View Post

This is why God invented Nietszche.

And, beer/scotch.


I guess I should probably go ahead and read Nietszche then. You weren't being facetious were you?

#9 Colin

Colin

    Last Year's Man

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,445 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 November 2006 - 07:45 PM

I would venture a guess and say that no,Par is not being facetious.

I also recommend Nietchze's works but be forewarned,much of his philosophy was spurned from angst.He was quite the woman hater in the classical sense but discounting his shitty opinions on women,his was a great mind.


I am in direct opposition to hedonism as a means to ride through life.The great escape it provides leaves you with nothing,ultimately.I will admit with no trepidation whatsoever that I haven't figured out my own philosophy on life but it surely is not one of the hedonistic nature.One man's pleasure begets another man's pain and existing purely to ride the dopamine snake is the essence of gluttonous self indulgence.


Avant Research Representative
www.avantresearch.com


The doer alone learneth. ~ Nietzsche

#10 Gahan

Gahan

    Mmmm...that's some damn good pumpkin pie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 160 posts

Posted 07 November 2006 - 08:06 PM

What of his should I begin my reading with?

#11 Section 8

Section 8

    In Vino Veritas

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Philosophy, mathematics, psychology, sociology, bioinformatics, finance, lifting, good food, good women -- anything and everything related to fine living.

    Deus sive Natura.

Posted 07 November 2006 - 08:09 PM

QUOTE(Gahan @ Nov 6 2006, 10:38 AM) View Post

Once one reaches the logical conclusion that knowledge of a relevant deity is probably not possible, that humans are just a walking chemical reaction, that all the meaning in the world is simply imposed by our minds, angst is usually the result. But angst does not suit me and is childish. Instead I accepted my fate and started focusing on what is left.

Some time ago I reached the conclusion that the seeking of pleasure (balanced between the short and long term) is of the paramount importance. That as long as I am here I might as well seek my own personal ends and run on my proverbial hamster's wheel. The fact that I will die and become nothing usually does not bother me, I view it as something that must be accepted and shows how me must 'seize the day'.

That is pretty much my worldview at the moment. The problem is I have an inkling (as one of my limited expereince and philosophical development should) that I am full of bullshit.

Comments?


I don't find it at all intuitive that the freedom to attribute meaning is a bad thing, in and of itself. It's a bad thing for morons who attribute silly and spurious meaning to things. On the other had, I think that the failure to attribute meaning at all (if that's possible) does result in angst; all of the energies that would otherwise get channeled into goal-oriented behaviors boomerang back upon the psyche. [This also leaves unsettled the matter of whether it's possible. I think Heidegger was right when he said (to paraphrase) that you're either being-there or being lived by the world; if you don't provide your own meaning, das Man will provide them for you. That's a different thread though.]

Hedonism is dandy, but in a sense it's also dis-satisfying, as a moral imperative. It can get boring eventually. Personally, I don't work well without some sense of ambition. When does hedonism shift to gross consumerism? I would err more towards a transcendent basis for morality that AFFORDS hedonism in the process of its actualization, like providing knowledge, services, or inventions to society (the caveat being 'that they'll actually pay you for').
Oh many a peer of England brews
Livelier liquor than the Muse,
And malt does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
Ale, man, ale's the stuff to drink
For fellows whom it hurts to think:
Look into the pewter pot
To see the world as the world's not.

#12 D Sade

D Sade

    Quixotic Asshole

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,343 posts

Posted 07 November 2006 - 10:22 PM

Depends on your particular bend...I found Genealogy of Morals a nice easy read, as well as Twilight of the Idols, and The Anti-Christ.

Bonus..you can usually find TOTI/A-C in a combo issue.

Of course, you can always start with the beginning, if you want to experience his true genius of insight/mental decline right along with him.
www.NutraPlanet.com
Lesson # 1 - You will never yield an honest crop by planting stolen seeds.
Lesson # 2 - Integrity and rationality require a constant, lifelong effort. There are no time-outs from thought.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Blinded, we hurl ourselves into impossible division...Spirits crumbled and sprinkled into flesh." ~D Sade
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Hail to the monkey with the missing tail...this lousy edifice - just a wishing wail" ~D Sade
------------------------------------------------------
"That's right, asshole - I am stronger than I've ever been.
Paltry death cannot hold me for long.
Can it be that I am stronger, even, than...me?" ~D Sade, written to Bizarro D Sade
-------------------------------------------
In Ferrum Veritas

#13 Loki

Loki

    Supplement Jesterô

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,125 posts
  • Location:Cloud Nine

Posted 07 November 2006 - 11:22 PM

QUOTE(Par Deus @ Nov 7 2006, 11:40 AM) View Post

This is why God invented Nietszche.



Anyone else get a decent laugh out of this one? No? Aw....


I wrote this post a long time ago, a real long time ago (back in '94)

#14 Loki

Loki

    Supplement Jesterô

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,125 posts
  • Location:Cloud Nine

Posted 07 November 2006 - 11:26 PM

QUOTE(Section 8 @ Nov 7 2006, 05:09 PM) View Post

Hedonism is dandy, but in a sense it's also dis-satisfying, as a moral imperative. It can get boring eventually. Personally, I don't work well without some sense of ambition. When does hedonism shift to gross consumerism? I would err more towards a transcendent basis for morality that AFFORDS hedonism in the process of its actualization, like providing knowledge, services, or inventions to society (the caveat being 'that they'll actually pay you for').



Bingo and bravo.


I wrote this post a long time ago, a real long time ago (back in '94)

#15 Frangible

Frangible

    Drug testing in progress

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 535 posts

Posted 08 November 2006 - 12:01 AM

QUOTE(Section 8 @ Nov 7 2006, 06:09 PM) View Post

I don't find it at all intuitive that the freedom to attribute meaning is a bad thing, in and of itself. It's a bad thing for morons who attribute silly and spurious meaning to things. On the other had, I think that the failure to attribute meaning at all (if that's possible)


Attribution of meaning is intrinsic to our mind; judging, comparing, this all happens automatically. If you are mindful of these thoughts, you will find they arise without any will on your part.

QUOTE
does result in angst; all of the energies that would otherwise get channeled into goal-oriented behaviors boomerang back upon the psyche.


And what is angst? Anxiety, apprehension, or insecurity. And what is the cause of anxiety, apprehension, and insecurity? Attachment to the outcomes of things that have not come to pass, and attachment to the ego. And what do goal-oriented behaviors require the mind to do? Attachment to outcomes that have not come to pass, and attachment to the self in the scope of it. So angst is intrinsic to goal-oriented behavior. Behavior that has no attachment to the fruit of the action has little anxiety.

QUOTE
This also leaves unsettled the matter of whether it's possible. I think Heidegger was right when he said (to paraphrase) that you're either being-there or being lived by the world; if you don't provide your own meaning, das Man will provide them for you. That's a different thread though.


And can words convey meaning? Can telling someone what apple juice tastes like convey the taste of apple juice to them, versus experiencing it?

QUOTE
Hedonism is dandy, but in a sense it's also dis-satisfying, as a moral imperative. It can get boring eventually. Personally, I don't work well without some sense of ambition.


But what is the long term result of ambition?

QUOTE
When does hedonism shift to gross consumerism? I would err more towards a transcendent basis for morality that AFFORDS hedonism in the process of its actualization, like providing knowledge, services, or inventions to society (the caveat being 'that they'll actually pay you for').


But is that pleasure, is that hedonism? Pleasure arises from the senses. Providing good deeds for society is something different, I think. Regardless of the outcome, the effort alone creates happiness for the doer, and happiness for the recipients.
"In short, self-absorption in all its forms kills empathy; let alone compassion. When we focus on ourselves, our world contracts as our problems and preoccupations loom large. But when we focus on others, our world expands. Our own problems drift to the periphery of the mind and so seem smaller, and we increase our capacity for connection-- or compassionate action." -Daniel Goleman, "Social Intelligence"

"But the unfortunate monkeys had lost all sense of how to respond emotionally to other monkeys in their band. Even when one made a friendly approach, they would run away, and eventually lived as isolates, shunning contact with their own troop." -Daniel Goleman, "Emotional Intelligence"

#16 Strateg0s

Strateg0s

    Thrashing sophists and misologists for sport.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,299 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:"A mass culture is a culture which can be appropriated by the meanest capacities without any intellectual and moral effort whatsoever and at a very low monetary price. ... But democracy, even if it is only regarded as the hard shell which protects the soft mass culture, requires in the long run qualities of an entirely different kind: qualities of dedication, of concentration, of breadth and of depth. Thus we understand most easily what liberal education means here and now. Liberal education is the counter-poison to mass culture, to the corroding effects of mass culture, to its inherent tendency to produce nothing but "specialists without spirit or vision and voluptuaries without heart." Liberal education is the ladder by which we try to ascend from mass democracy to democracy as originally meant. Liberal education is the necessary endeavor to found an aristocracy within democratic mass society. Liberal education reminds those members of a mass democracy who have ears to hear, of human greatness. ... Liberal education, which consists in the constant intercourse with the greatest minds, is a training in the highest form of modesty, not to say of humility. It is at the same time a training in boldness: it demands from us the complete break with the noise, the rush, the thoughtlessness, the cheapness of the Vanity Fair of the intellectuals as well as of their enemies. It demands from us the boldness implied in the resolve to regard the accepted views as mere opinions, or to regard the average opinions as extreme opinions which are at least as likely to be wrong as the most strange or the least popular opinions."

Posted 08 November 2006 - 02:50 AM

Nietzsche could well be right that "all is will to power, and nothing besides" [a notion perhaps finally indistinguishable from the platonic understanding of the eros of the psyche...]. The result of such a pronouncement's truth, if it is or indeed could be true, ought not to be relativism, but rather the recognition of the fundamental importance of the question raised thereby, namely, "What then is power?" To suppose, as many suppose, that Kleitophonic supposition that power is whatever one feels it to be, well, that is one way to solve, or rather to dissolve, the question. It is a rather weak way of doing so, notwithstanding the fact that close to everyone finally accepts this. Supposing for the moment however that Nietzsche could be correct, why should the realization - both the recognition and the making actual - of power not be inherently pleasant? If so, the best life would also be the most pleasant, or what is to say quite more than that, it quite possibly could be even the happiest. But those who suppose happiness or (as they suppose to be indistinguishable) pleasure is whatever they currently imagine it to be, well, they thereby limit even the degree of pleasure they can hope to obtain. There is a higher sort of pursuit, one which entails pleasure, but to discuss it as hedonism, well that in almost every circle will lead to a weak, not even pathetic, and therefore unpleasant to behold attempt to grasp at a fine understanding of human nature.
"The difficulty lies elsewhere. It is not easy to free one's mind from the impact of any apparently beneficient authority, for such freeing requires that one step outside of the circle warmed and charmed by the authority to be questioned. Yet it is necessary to make the effort."

#17 Strateg0s

Strateg0s

    Thrashing sophists and misologists for sport.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,299 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:"A mass culture is a culture which can be appropriated by the meanest capacities without any intellectual and moral effort whatsoever and at a very low monetary price. ... But democracy, even if it is only regarded as the hard shell which protects the soft mass culture, requires in the long run qualities of an entirely different kind: qualities of dedication, of concentration, of breadth and of depth. Thus we understand most easily what liberal education means here and now. Liberal education is the counter-poison to mass culture, to the corroding effects of mass culture, to its inherent tendency to produce nothing but "specialists without spirit or vision and voluptuaries without heart." Liberal education is the ladder by which we try to ascend from mass democracy to democracy as originally meant. Liberal education is the necessary endeavor to found an aristocracy within democratic mass society. Liberal education reminds those members of a mass democracy who have ears to hear, of human greatness. ... Liberal education, which consists in the constant intercourse with the greatest minds, is a training in the highest form of modesty, not to say of humility. It is at the same time a training in boldness: it demands from us the complete break with the noise, the rush, the thoughtlessness, the cheapness of the Vanity Fair of the intellectuals as well as of their enemies. It demands from us the boldness implied in the resolve to regard the accepted views as mere opinions, or to regard the average opinions as extreme opinions which are at least as likely to be wrong as the most strange or the least popular opinions."

Posted 08 November 2006 - 03:05 AM

QUOTE(Gahan @ Nov 7 2006, 09:06 PM) View Post
What of his should I begin my reading with?
Always begin and end your reading with your self. In between, there is a lot of Nietzsche's that you can read, however. Depending on your situation, the Untimely Essay "Schopenhauer as Educator" can be quite a good place for a non-freshman undergraduate to begin. I say that because by that time a reflective soul should recognize certain problems with the general state of education most likely being proffered. In any case, whatever writing of his you land upon, do remember to read it through in its entirety, and in order. He was a rather smart man, and had some very considered reasons for writing just as he wrote. "The worst readers are those who behave like plundering soldiers: they take away a few things they can use, spoil and confuse the rest, and blaspheme the whole." (a poor translation, yes, but I don't have it at hand and didn't care to paraphrase)

QUOTE(FB)
Crafty men contemn studies, simple men admire them, and wise men use them; for they teach not their own use; but that is a wisdom without them, and above them, won by observation. Read not to contradict and confute; nor to believe and take for granted; nor to find talk and discourse; but to weigh and consider. Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested; that is, some books are to be read only in parts; others to be read, but not curiously; and some few to be read wholly, and with diligence and attention. Some books also may be read by deputy, and extracts made of them by others; but that would be only in the less important arguments, and the meaner sort of books, else distilled books are like common distilled waters, flashy things.
Nietzsche is among the few whose books ought to be "chewed and digested," "read wholly, and with diligence and attention." For he sought to say in a paragraph what others say in a book - what others don't say in a book.
"The difficulty lies elsewhere. It is not easy to free one's mind from the impact of any apparently beneficient authority, for such freeing requires that one step outside of the circle warmed and charmed by the authority to be questioned. Yet it is necessary to make the effort."

#18 velikimajmun

velikimajmun

    aka Malcolm Sex...pleasing the ladies by any means necessary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 926 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:neither here nor there

Posted 08 November 2006 - 09:20 AM

-What is the Best thing in Life?

-To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.


That about sums it up for me.
Posted Image

"It's a totally cool and extremely clever analysis," said Daniel Lieberman, a professor of biological anthropology at Harvard. "My problem is imagining what it would be like to have a bipedal hominid and a chimpanzee viewing each other as appropriate mates, not to put it too crudely."

#19 Par Deus

Par Deus

    Supplement God

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,297 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 November 2006 - 10:30 AM

QUOTE(Loki @ Nov 7 2006, 08:22 PM) View Post

Anyone else get a decent laugh out of this one? No? Aw....


I thought it was very layered and clever for a 6 word sentence.

But, I think I get more of a kick out of myself than most.
Posted Image


I exist to do 3 things.
Drink beer, kick ass, and take names.
And, I'm to drunk to spel.

www.avantlabs.com

#20 Gahan

Gahan

    Mmmm...that's some damn good pumpkin pie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 160 posts

Posted 08 November 2006 - 10:43 AM

Thinking about what I would have become without the advice of people on this board scares me. And I'm not just talking about this. Thank you all.

#21 Par Deus

Par Deus

    Supplement God

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,297 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 November 2006 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE(Gahan @ Nov 8 2006, 07:43 AM) View Post

Thinking about what I would have become without the advice of people on this board scares me. And I'm not just talking about this. Thank you all.


I think quite a few of us could say the same. I certainly do.

Really smart people get angst in this world, and it is terribly logical and not that unreasonable to do so. And, it is easy to feel alone in such amongst the happily unthinking and quietly desparate.

Lots of great minds here who have figured a lot out, or at least share a similar search and struggle.


Posted Image


I exist to do 3 things.
Drink beer, kick ass, and take names.
And, I'm to drunk to spel.

www.avantlabs.com

#22 Sprinkles

Sprinkles

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 08 November 2006 - 11:46 PM

Why should there be a purpose to life?

As in, we are all matter of the universe - we are the eternal energy - you are the godhead. Our conscious is deceptive in the sense that it is a filter for our senses and is a very limited one at best(billions of reactions go undetected by your conscious and are autonomous). "By god, I am seperate from this universe! I am myself! Bliss! Oh how happy I am!" - Well, is this universe in you or are you in the universe or are we all just part of a whole organism? Why should you attach a purpose to this filter of matter? - You will die. Your matter will be recycled. Do you really wish to "will to power," which in and of itself is useless and means absolutely nothing - nothing - you will die - your matter will be recycled. Will anything you want, go read Nietzsche - continue to search for the purpose of life, and when you find it - post it for us all to be enlightened.

Thus, what you do is what I am and what I do is what you are.

For the creative minds amongst us: come up with some experiments and test this yourself.

#23 steppen_wolf

steppen_wolf

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 367 posts
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Interests:Living, philosophy, psychology, fitness, intelligence and all the rest.

Posted 09 November 2006 - 12:33 AM

QUOTE(Sprinkles @ Nov 8 2006, 11:46 PM) View Post

Why should there be a purpose to life?

As in, we are all matter of the universe - we are the eternal energy - you are the godhead. Our conscious is deceptive in the sense that it is a filter for our senses and is a very limited one at best(billions of reactions go undetected by your conscious and are autonomous). "By god, I am seperate from this universe! I am myself! Bliss! Oh how happy I am!" - Well, is this universe in you or are you in the universe or are we all just part of a whole organism? Why should you attach a purpose to this filter of matter? - You will die. Your matter will be recycled. Do you really wish to "will to power," which in and of itself is useless and means absolutely nothing - nothing - you will die - your matter will be recycled. Will anything you want, go read Nietzsche - continue to search for the purpose of life, and when you find it - post it for us all to be enlightened.

Thus, what you do is what I am and what I do is what you are.

For the creative minds amongst us: come up with some experiments and test this yourself.


Purpose of life is simple.
If you believe in a religion, it's defined within that belief system (aka BS.)
If you don't believe in a BS, then you are left with some sort of human code such as humanity which is defined by your personal sense of right and wrong developed over your life time influenced by things you value..if nothing else, you eventually fall onto evolution for a purpose. Evolution - survival of the species. It does appear that intelligence was something that man was being developed for. That is, the brain was increasing in size, until recently, it's shruck a little - probably because people who are extremely intelligent were killed off by the masses - burned at the stake, or dunked as a witch. Anyhow, evolution suggests that homo sapiens's huge brain is for the purpose of getting along in larger social groups (tribes.)

So then the purpose of life is to get along. I don't quite understand those who believe in evolution and have little or no compassion for others of thier same species - it's called empathy and those who fail to have empathy are called sociopaths. Sociopathic species fail to exist.

Nietzche was a (is a) polemic. those who fail to see that are not much different from religious followers.

"Those who quote Nietsche have never read Nietzche" is a quote i came across years ago - and have found it to be true in every case I aggresively inquired.
Little boys on the playground take things they want from others and are punished for doing so. Little girls convince others to give up thier things and are not punished. We reward the feminine way and punish the natural male tendacy. Are we not then, in civilized societies feminizing the beast known as man? Who is it that gets to make that ruling that negotiating is better than physical aggresion, when they both have the same result? Why is negotiating better? -- From a movie "dragon" - touch me, and i'll touch you back.

#24 Section 8

Section 8

    In Vino Veritas

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Philosophy, mathematics, psychology, sociology, bioinformatics, finance, lifting, good food, good women -- anything and everything related to fine living.

    Deus sive Natura.

Posted 09 November 2006 - 12:42 AM

QUOTE(Sprinkles @ Nov 8 2006, 09:46 PM) View Post

Why should there be a purpose to life?


Because having sex with strangers hasn't been nearly as attractive an option since Foucault succombed to AIDS.

QUOTE
As in, we are all matter of the universe - we are the eternal energy - you are the godhead. Our conscious is deceptive in the sense that it is a filter for our senses and is a very limited one at best(billions of reactions go undetected by your conscious and are autonomous).


If you say so - er, if the mushrooms tell you so.

QUOTE
"By god, I am seperate from this universe! I am myself! Bliss! Oh how happy I am!" - Well, is this universe in you or are you in the universe or are we all just part of a whole organism? Why should you attach a purpose to this filter of matter? - You will die. Your matter will be recycled. Do you really wish to "will to power," which in and of itself is useless and means absolutely nothing - nothing - you will die - your matter will be recycled.


How does this have fuck-all to do with anything?

QUOTE
Thus, what you do is what I am and what I do is what you are.


If you say so - er, if the mushrooms tell you so.

...

You're thoughts are just as deep, now, as they were when you were arguing for White Supremacy. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you're just a moron, beyond any hope of rehabilitation?
Oh many a peer of England brews
Livelier liquor than the Muse,
And malt does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
Ale, man, ale's the stuff to drink
For fellows whom it hurts to think:
Look into the pewter pot
To see the world as the world's not.

#25 Section 8

Section 8

    In Vino Veritas

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Philosophy, mathematics, psychology, sociology, bioinformatics, finance, lifting, good food, good women -- anything and everything related to fine living.

    Deus sive Natura.

Posted 09 November 2006 - 12:49 AM

QUOTE(steppen_wolf @ Nov 8 2006, 10:33 PM) View Post

Nietzche was a (is a) polemic. those who fail to see that are not much different from religious followers.


I don't agree with that at all. At least, not in the literal sense. All philosophy has always been seen as an assault on the status quo, but that doesn't delegate it to the realm of polemic. Nietzsce himself said that the first virtue of the philosopher was that he's, "untimely, always untimely," i.e., tied to concerns naturally manifest of the man-in-society condition, not of man-in-a-PARTICULAR-society. Despite some of his remarks about Germanism, etc., Nietzsche said relatively little about his contemporary culture as such; many remarks that seem to be about his own contemporary culture can be abstractly extrapolated to any number of cultures.

Granted, I'm not as well read in this department as Ras is. I've read all of Nietzsche that's been translated into English, as well as a good deal of commentary and criticism, but I lack the German fluency necessary to engage the original texts. Suffice it to say, you're going to have to work VERY hard to defend your 'Nietzsche as a polemicist' stance, here, among people who actually HAVE read him.
Oh many a peer of England brews
Livelier liquor than the Muse,
And malt does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
Ale, man, ale's the stuff to drink
For fellows whom it hurts to think:
Look into the pewter pot
To see the world as the world's not.

#26 Sprinkles

Sprinkles

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 09 November 2006 - 01:56 AM

QUOTE(Section 8 @ Nov 9 2006, 12:42 AM) View Post

Because having sex with strangers hasn't been nearly as attractive an option since Foucault succombed to AIDS.
If you say so - er, if the mushrooms tell you so.
How does this have fuck-all to do with anything?
If you say so - er, if the mushrooms tell you so.

...

You're thoughts are just as deep, now, as they were when you were arguing for White Supremacy. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you're just a moron, beyond any hope of rehabilitation?

I tend to find that ugly people are angry inside: at themselves, at others, at life. There is a purpose for the hideous - let them have power!

We have love.

#27 Section 8

Section 8

    In Vino Veritas

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Philosophy, mathematics, psychology, sociology, bioinformatics, finance, lifting, good food, good women -- anything and everything related to fine living.

    Deus sive Natura.

Posted 09 November 2006 - 02:20 AM

You've discovered my secret!!

No retort. You've got me. Set, match, love (except for me, as love is a thing that ugly, angry people like me don't get to experience).

Sweft, thank you for showing me the Way. I forever bow to your omniscience.

I'll go to bed, now ... an angry, sexless mongoloid sad.gif
Oh many a peer of England brews
Livelier liquor than the Muse,
And malt does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
Ale, man, ale's the stuff to drink
For fellows whom it hurts to think:
Look into the pewter pot
To see the world as the world's not.

#28 Frangible

Frangible

    Drug testing in progress

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 535 posts

Posted 09 November 2006 - 09:28 AM

QUOTE
If you believe in a religion, it's defined within that belief system (aka BS.)
... So then the purpose of life is to get along.


You do realize the deep irony of that statement, do you not?
"In short, self-absorption in all its forms kills empathy; let alone compassion. When we focus on ourselves, our world contracts as our problems and preoccupations loom large. But when we focus on others, our world expands. Our own problems drift to the periphery of the mind and so seem smaller, and we increase our capacity for connection-- or compassionate action." -Daniel Goleman, "Social Intelligence"

"But the unfortunate monkeys had lost all sense of how to respond emotionally to other monkeys in their band. Even when one made a friendly approach, they would run away, and eventually lived as isolates, shunning contact with their own troop." -Daniel Goleman, "Emotional Intelligence"

#29 Strateg0s

Strateg0s

    Thrashing sophists and misologists for sport.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,299 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:"A mass culture is a culture which can be appropriated by the meanest capacities without any intellectual and moral effort whatsoever and at a very low monetary price. ... But democracy, even if it is only regarded as the hard shell which protects the soft mass culture, requires in the long run qualities of an entirely different kind: qualities of dedication, of concentration, of breadth and of depth. Thus we understand most easily what liberal education means here and now. Liberal education is the counter-poison to mass culture, to the corroding effects of mass culture, to its inherent tendency to produce nothing but "specialists without spirit or vision and voluptuaries without heart." Liberal education is the ladder by which we try to ascend from mass democracy to democracy as originally meant. Liberal education is the necessary endeavor to found an aristocracy within democratic mass society. Liberal education reminds those members of a mass democracy who have ears to hear, of human greatness. ... Liberal education, which consists in the constant intercourse with the greatest minds, is a training in the highest form of modesty, not to say of humility. It is at the same time a training in boldness: it demands from us the complete break with the noise, the rush, the thoughtlessness, the cheapness of the Vanity Fair of the intellectuals as well as of their enemies. It demands from us the boldness implied in the resolve to regard the accepted views as mere opinions, or to regard the average opinions as extreme opinions which are at least as likely to be wrong as the most strange or the least popular opinions."

Posted 09 November 2006 - 09:57 AM

QUOTE(Sprinkles @ Nov 9 2006, 02:56 AM) View Post
I tend to find that ugly people are angry inside: at themselves, at others, at life. There is a purpose for the hideous - let them have power!

We have love.

Guess you missed this:
QUOTE
Nietzsche could well be right that "all is will to power, and nothing besides" [a notion perhaps finally indistinguishable from the platonic understanding of the eros of the psyche...].


Your understanding of power seems to come from listening to the bad guys in cartoons, or (what is the mirror of the same) Noam Chomsky.
"The difficulty lies elsewhere. It is not easy to free one's mind from the impact of any apparently beneficient authority, for such freeing requires that one step outside of the circle warmed and charmed by the authority to be questioned. Yet it is necessary to make the effort."

#30 geigertube

geigertube

    ZOMG

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,120 posts
  • Location:Secret HQ in geostationary orbit above Kansas City, MO

Posted 09 November 2006 - 10:25 AM

QUOTE(Section 8 @ Nov 8 2006, 11:20 PM) View Post

You've discovered my secret!!

No retort. You've got me. Set, match, love (except for me, as love is a thing that ugly, angry people like me don't get to experience).

Sweft, thank you for showing me the Way. I forever bow to your omniscience.

I'll go to bed, now ... an angry, sexless mongoloid sad.gif



Don't worry, we still love you, Section 8.


Gahan,

Just my two hundredths of a dollar, here, but I wouldn't get too caught up in philosophy, religion, or any of that. Or at least dont think them ends to themselves. Just take care of your body, find things to do that you enjoy, and dont every let anyone tell you that you arent really happy, or the right kind of happy, when you think that you are. And try not to think about it too much. The times I've been the most miserable have been when I've tried to "figure everything out" and focused intently on trying to be happy When I gave up and decided to move on to another hobby it came back. YMMV, however.


you can cut your split ends, but you can't cut your roots.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users